Interview with Basil Brave Heart and Hilary Giovale

In this episode, we talk to Basil Brave Heart and Hilary Giovale. This was an amazing conversation about forgiveness – forgiving our oppressors, how true healing and repair happen given the reality of historical harms, how white settlers need to forgive themselves as part of the work of reparation. Basil also shares deeply from his tradition in ways that Sarah and Sheri found very moving.

Basil Brave Heart is an Oglala Lakota Elder who lives in Pine Ridge, South Dakota.  He is a Catholic boarding school survivor, retired school administrator, addiction counselor, and Korean War combat veteran who served as a paratrooper in the 1950s.  As a young child in the 1930s, Basil’s Grandma Lucy told him about the 1890 Wounded Knee massacre.  She counseled him to forgive the soldiers who perpetrated the massacre.  A dream of his Grandma later guided Basil to change the name of a peak in the Black Hills.  In 2016, it was renamed “Black Elk Peak” at the federal level.  Basil studies how quantum physics corroborates the wisdom woven throughout the Lakota language and other Indigenous languages.  Over the last decade, he has been facilitating truth, healing, and forgiveness across historical divides.

Hilary Giovale is a mother, writer, and community organizer who lives in Flagstaff, Arizona.  A ninth-generation American settler, she is descended from Celtic, Germanic, Nordic, and Indigenous peoples of Ancient Europe.  An active reparationist, her work is guided by intuition, love, and relationships. Hilary seeks to follow Indigenous and Black leadership in support of human rights, environmental justice, and equitable futures.  She is the author of Becoming a Good Relative: Calling White Settlers Toward Truth, Healing, and Repair (Green Writers Press, April 2024). Since 2019, Basil and Hilary have been collaborating on healing work, focused on repairing the harm that has been wrought by the Doctrine of Discovery.   

You can read more about their relationship in this two-part interview. Learn more about Hilary’s work at goodrelative.com.

Please consider signing the “I Support the Sacred” petition to show your support for Apache Stronghold’s legal case to protect Oak Flat. Resolution Copper, a subsidiary of British and Australian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP, proposes to completely destroy this sacred site and contaminate the surrounding land, water and air. Preserving the religious liberty of Apache peoples is essential to preserving our own. We must all join together to protect sacred land from the forces of destruction. 

Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here. We are also publishing a Substack with the same title based on the theme found in our book — ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and where we find hope for our future. We’re excited about this Substack because it’s a more personal, unfiltered space in which we can share our thoughts and writings. 

You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook.

Interview with Kaitlin Curtice

In this episode, we talk with Kaitlin Curtice, author, poet, storyteller, public speaker and an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi nation. Her most recent book is Living Resistance: An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day. She also authored the 2020 award-winning book Native: Identity, Belonging and Rediscovering God. Katilin also has a children’s book coming out this fall called Winter’s Gifts: An Indigenous Celebration of Nature – just in time for the holidays! 

Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here.

You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

Sarah and Sheri Talk about their New Book

In this episode, Sarah and Sheri reflect on the Richard Heinberg interview as it relates to the message of their new book So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis. We discuss why we are hopeful despite the polycrisis described in both our new book and in the interview with Richard.  We also talk about why conspiracy theories like QAnon are onto something true and why it is important to be in kinship and solidarity with the working-class and poor people who believe these theories. 

Note: At the beginning of this episode, we refer to a segment of the interview with Richard that wasn’t included in the previous episode. It’s a segment where he talks about the work of complexity scientist Peter Turchin. If you want to listen to that 7-minute segment – shameless plug alert! – you can do so by subscribing to Sarah’s and my new Substack, where you will get a quite personal weekly reflection on ecological justice, decolonization, faith, and hope for our future. We’ll begin posting Nov. 30.

We refer to this podcast episode, “Insects – A Silent Extinction” on Nate Hagens’ “The Great Simplification.”You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

Interview with Richard Heinberg

In this episode, we talk with Richard Heinberg, one of the world’s foremost advocates for a shift away from our reliance on fossil fuels. He is the author of fourteen books, including some of the major works on society’s current energy and environmental sustainability crisis. His latest book is Power: Limits and Prospects for Human Survival (New Society, 2021). He is also Senior Fellow of the Post Carbon Institute, which is one of the main places Sheri goes to for information and analysis related to the polycrisis in which we find ourselves.  Sheri relied on Richard’s work and that of the Post Carbon Institute when writing her and Sarah’s book, which is coming out later this month – So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis (Herald Press). We’re delighted that Richard wrote an endorsement for our book!

You can find all of the articles Richard mentioned in this podcast, and more, at his website

Also check out the Post Carbon Institute’s resilience.org, which offers complex and clear systemic analysis on ecology, the environment, the equity crisis, energy and politics.

You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

Interview with Dwight Metzger

In anticipation of the Day of Prayer for Oak Flat on Nov. 4, we talk to Dwight Metzger, who has struggled with Apache Stronghold for decades to protect their sacred ancestral lands from destruction by a copper mine. In this interview, Dwight talks about the importance of the sacred sites of Oak Flat and Mount Graham for the San Carlos Apache and how he has been converted from the worldview of Western corporate environmentalism to one that follows the leadership of Indigenous people.  

 

For more information about the Nov. 4, 2023, Day of Prayer, please go here.

Other websites:

  • Dwight’s union print shop, The Gloo Factory
  • To learn more about Oak Flat and Mount Graham, go to the Apache Stronghold website

Sarah and Sheri wrote a book together! Find out more about So We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis here.

You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

Correction: In this episode, Sarah refers to the mine that Resolution Copper wants to build at Oak Flat as an open pit copper mine. Actually, the copper deposit is one mile underground, which is why Resolution Copper is proposing an unproven “block and cave” method to extract the copper. The process is also sometimes referred to as block caving.

 

Interview with Patty Krawec

We’re back after taking a break to write a book! (See below.) The first podcast of our new season features Patty Krawec, an Anishinaabe and Ukranian writer from Lac Seul First Nation. She is the author of the compelling book, Becoming Kin: An Indigenous Call to Unforgetting the Past and Reimagining our Future, released in 2022. She is also the cohost of the Medicine for the Resistance podcast and the cofounder of the Nii’kinaaganaa Foundation. We’re also honored that Patty wrote a beautiful forward for our book, which is being published this month.

Our book: So That We and Our Children May Live: Following Jesus in Confronting the Climate Crisis (Herald Press)

Patty’s website and Substack

You can follow the Coalition to Dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery on Instagram (@coalitiontodismantle) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery)

A Foster Mom Speaks Out about ICWA

In episode #7, we discussed the Indian Child Welfare Acts or ICWA, which is a major piece of civil rights legislation for Native Americans that has come under threat in the courts. This important law, passed in 1978, strengthened the legal rights of Indigenous families and specified that when Native children are removed from the care of their families, they will be placed in the care of extended family members, families in their own tribe, or Indigenous families from another tribe. On Nov. 9, 2022, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear a case that challenges the constitutionality of ICWA. In this episode, we will hear about the importance of ICWA by talking to a mother from the dominant culture who fostered a Native child.

For more information:

  • The National Indian Child Welfare Association website
  • Chapter one of Sarah Augustine’s  book, The Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery.
  • Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition website.

Ask an Indian – Part 2

In round two of this episode, Sarah answers more listener questions, including: 

  • I was in a meeting where someone used the phrase “off the rez,” and I noticed that you (Sarah) as the only Native person in the meeting were actually less offended by this phrase than other folks were. Can you say more about your response?
  • How do white people know which “side” to take when Indigenous communities are divided around an issue?  For example, some tribes, or people within them, are supportive of a tribe seeking federal recognition and some are not. Or some are supportive of a development project, but others are not. 
  • When Indigenous peoples want land return, does that mean they want to kick me out of my house? Do they want me to leave the country or something?  

We want your questions, especially those you might feel too embarrassed to ask “out loud.” Please submit any questions to Sheri at fmcsf@aol.com. You can even do so anonymously, if you wish. And, for more information on donating land to local Native tribes or proceeds from a land sale to Indigenous justice organizations, please contact John Stoesz at johnstoesz1@gmail.com and check out this video for his story of land return.

 

Ask an Indian – Part 1

In this recurring episode, Sarah answers questions from listeners. Questions include:

  • What is the deal about dressing up like and Indian? Why is that offensive? 
  • What do Native people think about Columbus Day, Thanksgiving Day, etc.?
  • Many white settlers look to Indigenous People for ideas about how to connect with the land and live more sustainably. But Indigenous people have been so assimilated – what wisdom do they actually have to offer the larger culture? 

We want your questions, especially those you might feel too embarrassed to ask “out loud.” Please submit any questions to Sheri at fmcsf@aol.com. You can even do so anonymously, if you wish.

Vision

In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk about Sarah’s “100-year vision” for the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition. Sarah will begin as the full-time Executive Director of the Coalition on July 1.

To contribute to Sarah’s salary campaign, please go here. Every dollar you donate will be matched by Sheri’s congregation, First Mennonite Church of San Francisco, through Indigenous Peoples Day of this year (October 10).